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Date: July 27, 2005
From: Bert Freudenberg <bert@xxxxxxxxx>
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<WISCLIST-728292-1288725-2005.07.27-14.50.10--bert#impara.de@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Am 27.07.2005 um 21:50 schrieb Daniel Morrigan:
After reading this list for a while I realized that you all are well above my abilities in programming. I am amazed at some of the things I have read here.The topic lately seems to be how to allow people to communicate with Croquet through firewalls and if possible securely. Would it not be possible to have a VPN server on the Internet that people wanting to use Croquet connect to? I would be willing to host the server on my backbone (OC12). This would remove the firewall communication problem. It would enable easy testing of different neighbor discovery protocols and provide a fairly noise free environment to work in. I know that this just bypasses the entire firewall issue, but I am sure that your firewalls already allow VPN traffic to traverse them.If the network doesn't exist create it. Using compression on the VPN links would also help move media over the links a little faster.I hope I haven't rehashed something that was discussed in the past that I missed. I hope it helps.
It was discussed, but not extensively:
https://lists.wisc.edu/read/messages?id=251991#251991
- Bert -
Date: July 27, 2005
From: Daniel Morrigan <daniel.morrigan@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: July 26, 2005
From: Bert Freudenberg <bert@xxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<WISCLIST-728292-1286018-2005.07.26-11.59.59--bert#impara.de@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Am 26.07.2005 um 18:54 schrieb Greg Buchholz:
I'm trying to find a version of Alan Kay's "Is Software Engineering an Oxymoron?" article, but I keep coming up short. It was apparently once part of the Croquet User Guide (Appendix B), but I can't seem to locate the older version (0.1) and it doesn't appear to be in the current guide. My google powers seem to be failing me, and I don't see a search function on http://opencroquet.org/.
So you also need to gain way-back-machine-powers ;-)http://web.archive.org/web/20030407181600/www.opencroquet.org/ downloads/Croquet0.1.pdf
- Bert -
Date: July 26, 2005
From: "Greg Buchholz" <sleepingsquirrel@xxxxxxxxx>
I'm trying to find a version of Alan Kay's "Is Software Engineering an Oxymoron?" article, but I keep coming up short. It was apparently once part of the Croquet User Guide (Appendix B), but I can't seem to locate the older version (0.1) and it doesn't appear to be in the current guide. My google powers seem to be failing me, and I don't see a search function on http://opencroquet.org/. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Greg Buchholz
Date: July 25, 2005
From: Erik Pettersson <tankdriverikea@xxxxxxxxx>
Hello, I haven't found a IRC channel for this project yet, although I found the Squeak channel over at freenode. They couldn't help so much with Croquet specific questions, guessing that this is about the only place one might get help. Anyway, as of today I'm planning to enter #croquet on irc.freenode.org (or is it .net?:), and I would be pleased if somebody would care to join me. If a channel already exists, please let me know. Best Regards
Date: July 25, 2005
From: Shun-Yun Hu <syhu@xxxxxxxxx>
Thanks for the positive comments on VON.A note on the selection of neighbors in VON: it is done purely based on the user location/coordinate in the virutal environment (so we assume each user can be representated as a coordinate point in 2D or 3D space). But "virtual distance" is not the only consideration for neighbor connection, because a user might be wandering in some very remote area where no one else is within his/her visibility. So minimally each user needs to connect to its "enclosing neighbors" as defined by the Voronoi diagram (see Fig. 4 in http://vast.sourceforge.net/VON/)
Latency is not considered because we cannot assume which two users might be interacting, and we must allow connections to be established even if the two users are separated by large network distance. However, by making all interacting peers to send message directly to each other, I think latency is theoretically minimized in such context (unless relaying messages through a server incurs less latency than when transmitted directly between two clients).
The "requesting state information from peers" you mentioned about is what I've been thinking as the next step in VON's development. You think it may not very workable because of limited client-side bandwidth or some other factors? In fact, I'm thinking that perhaps the functions of Interactivity Servers in Croquet can be split between the World Servers and clients, where transient states are simply maintained between interacting peers without requiring a server. Or put it another way, as clients grow ever more powerful, it might be more and more feasible to consider them as "little servers".
In response to Dr. Reed's comments, I'd be quite interested to see how VON may be integrated to Croquet and to what degree can it be used.
Shun-Yun----- Original Message ----- From: "David Faught" <dave_faught@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <croquet-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:37 AM Subject: re:[croquet-user] p2p neighbor discovery
Yes, I thought that the "Voronoi-based Overlay Network", or VON idea is a very interesting one and worth further exploration. I did read through the whitepapers, although I will need to reread them for greater detail.In my understanding, a VON is based on a single distance metric, where the neighbors of interest, with whom tight communications are maintained, are selected based on how close they are in a virtual 2-dimensional space, which presumably could correspond directly with the x and z coordinates within a Croquet space. It does not appear to take network latency into account, although that might be an issue more for maintaining the TeaTime clock "lag tolerence window" than for deciding with whom it's important to communicate directly. So a VON would be most usefull in limiting the required bandwidth to maintain neighbor relationships and state in in a situation where there are many peers within a single Croquet space.This seems like a good approach to a problem that seems to plague many online shared spaces. It seems to work out that although there are many separate spaces of interest, participants seem to gather together in clusters.I could see where another approach to this same situation would be to request state information from peers within one's rendered viewing area, but that may not be a very workable approach.I look forward to further discussion and developments in this area, as I'm sure it is a very important issue.--- You are currently subscribed to croquet-user as: syhu@xxxxxxxxxTo unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-croquet-user-829196H@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: July 24, 2005
From: "David Faught" <dave_faught@xxxxxxxxx>
Yes, I thought that the "Voronoi-based Overlay Network", or VON idea is a very interesting one and worth further exploration. I did read through the whitepapers, although I will need to reread them for greater detail. In my understanding, a VON is based on a single distance metric, where the neighbors of interest, with whom tight communications are maintained, are selected based on how close they are in a virtual 2-dimensional space, which presumably could correspond directly with the x and z coordinates within a Croquet space. It does not appear to take network latency into account, although that might be an issue more for maintaining the TeaTime clock "lag tolerence window" than for deciding with whom it's important to communicate directly. So a VON would be most usefull in limiting the required bandwidth to maintain neighbor relationships and state in in a situation where there are many peers within a single Croquet space. This seems like a good approach to a problem that seems to plague many online shared spaces. It seems to work out that although there are many separate spaces of interest, participants seem to gather together in clusters. I could see where another approach to this same situation would be to request state information from peers within one's rendered viewing area, but that may not be a very workable approach. I look forward to further discussion and developments in this area, as I'm sure it is a very important issue.
Date: July 24, 2005
From: "David P. Reed" <dpreed@xxxxxxxx>
Some observations.The idea for Croquet is to be as much as possible "infrastructure-free". That is, to have most or all of the infrastructure result from self-assembly of user parts. Essentially like BitTorrent requires each user to provide resources as part of his/her participation and in proportion to his/her use.
Neighbor discovery is a part of the network connectivity problem. Most communications in Croquet involves small groups of users who are currently working in a shared world. They need very low latency communications, and our measure of "neighborliness" must involve minimizing latency, which is largely dominated by queueing delays in the network. The small groups are typically small enough that it's often faster (latency-wise) to send multiple copies of messages to every peer rather than to construct a "multicast tree".
So it is in this context that I'm reading the very interesting "voronois-based" neighbor discovery paper. Minimizing latency in group communications on a shared network doesn't necessarily start with constructing an "optimum" graph based on a static distance metric.
I hope that many people will be interested in contributing ideas like this to Croquet, and might even be willing to focus on adapting their ideas to Croquet's problem space.
Date: July 22, 2005
From: "David Faught" <dave_faught@xxxxxxxxx>
Refering to your number 4 question, you may also want to look at http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2004-November/084731.html although I'm not sure where this plugin might be right now. This Squeak interface would have to be extended into Croquet as Howard suggested previously.
Date: July 21, 2005
From: Bert Freudenberg <bert@xxxxxxxxx>
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No, it's not in the 1.1 branch either. As I wrote in my previous message this is only in the Squeak 3.8-based Tweak version, which isn't even Changeset-based anymore but using Monticello packages. I'll attach the new methods, but we have changed some bindings, too (in particular #accept and #return which are mapped to Enter and Return keys, and #return used to be #enter before). But you should be able to make it work using this. When you have a changeset, Andreas could push it into the 1.0 and 1.1 Tweak streams. - Bert - Am 21.07.2005 um 21:31 schrieb Josh Gargus: > How do we get this in Jasmine? Point Tweak updates to 1.1 and update? > > Thanks, > Josh > > > On Jul 21, 2005, at 2:08 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > >> Did you actually read what I wrote? You need to update >> CMacOSPlatform, newer versions of which know about the changed >> keyboard mapping. >> >> - Bert - > --- You are currently subscribed to croquet-user as: gclscu-croquet-user@xxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-croquet-user-829196H@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
cplatform.st.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
Date: July 21, 2005
From: Josh Gargus <schwa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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<WISCLIST-1126349-1276972-2005.07.21-14.08.39--gargus#wisc.edu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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How do we get this in Jasmine? Point Tweak updates to 1.1 and update? Thanks, Josh On Jul 21, 2005, at 2:08 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Did you actually read what I wrote? You need to update CMacOSPlatform, newer versions of which know about the changed keyboard mapping.- Bert -
Date: July 21, 2005
From: Bert Freudenberg <bert@xxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<347acb998523dd623b3308cc46f2b773@xxxxxxxx>
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<347acb998523dd623b3308cc46f2b773@xxxxxxxx>
- Bert - Am 21.07.2005 um 20:56 schrieb Howard Stearns:
Aaargh. Lest anyone try this, be warned that 3.8.8b5 doesn't work. Characters typed in to Tweak typein boxes are all jumbled up.On Jul 21, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:Am 21.07.2005 um 15:48 schrieb Howard Stearns:Anyone getting their Macintosh locked up?My mac (panther) has just locked up for the second time this week, while switching context to Squeak running the annotation morph. Josh's (tiger) has been doing the same (although possibly on different morphs or different contexts, but seemingly while running Croquet).Complete lock up of everything but the mouse. No keyboard, no apple-option-esc, no apple-dot, no beach ball.I am not using sound, and consequently have stuck with the VM from the Jasmine distribution (labeled 3.7.5Beta3.app).It's always a good idea to try the latest VM version: http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/FileSharing.html latest at the moment is 3.8.8b5.In 3.8.7 the keyboard codes were changed, so if your cursor keys stop working in Tweak, you need an updated CMacOSPlatform class. This has not yet been backported from the 3.8-based Tweak version.- Bert - --- You are currently subscribed to croquet-user as: hstearns@xxxxxxxxTo unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-croquet- user-750925B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: July 21, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<WISCLIST-750925-1276708-2005.07.21-11.38.57--hstearns#wisc.edu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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<WISCLIST-750925-1276708-2005.07.21-11.38.57--hstearns#wisc.edu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Jul 21, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Am 21.07.2005 um 15:48 schrieb Howard Stearns:Anyone getting their Macintosh locked up?My mac (panther) has just locked up for the second time this week, while switching context to Squeak running the annotation morph. Josh's (tiger) has been doing the same (although possibly on different morphs or different contexts, but seemingly while running Croquet).Complete lock up of everything but the mouse. No keyboard, no apple-option-esc, no apple-dot, no beach ball.I am not using sound, and consequently have stuck with the VM from the Jasmine distribution (labeled 3.7.5Beta3.app).It's always a good idea to try the latest VM version: http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/FileSharing.html latest at the moment is 3.8.8b5.In 3.8.7 the keyboard codes were changed, so if your cursor keys stop working in Tweak, you need an updated CMacOSPlatform class. This has not yet been backported from the 3.8-based Tweak version.- Bert - --- You are currently subscribed to croquet-user as: hstearns@xxxxxxxxTo unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-croquet-user-829196H@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: July 21, 2005
From: Bert Freudenberg <bert@xxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<WISCLIST-728292-1276296-2005.07.21-08.47.23--bert#impara.de@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<WISCLIST-728292-1276296-2005.07.21-08.47.23--bert#impara.de@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Am 21.07.2005 um 15:48 schrieb Howard Stearns:
Anyone getting their Macintosh locked up?My mac (panther) has just locked up for the second time this week, while switching context to Squeak running the annotation morph. Josh's (tiger) has been doing the same (although possibly on different morphs or different contexts, but seemingly while running Croquet).Complete lock up of everything but the mouse. No keyboard, no apple- option-esc, no apple-dot, no beach ball.I am not using sound, and consequently have stuck with the VM from the Jasmine distribution (labeled 3.7.5Beta3.app).
It's always a good idea to try the latest VM version:
http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/FileSharing.html
latest at the moment is 3.8.8b5.
In 3.8.7 the keyboard codes were changed, so if your cursor keys stop
working in Tweak, you need an updated CMacOSPlatform class. This has
not yet been backported from the 3.8-based Tweak version.
- Bert -
Date: July 21, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
Anyone getting their Macintosh locked up?My mac (panther) has just locked up for the second time this week, while switching context to Squeak running the annotation morph. Josh's (tiger) has been doing the same (although possibly on different morphs or different contexts, but seemingly while running Croquet).
Complete lock up of everything but the mouse. No keyboard, no apple-option-esc, no apple-dot, no beach ball.
I am not using sound, and consequently have stuck with the VM from the Jasmine distribution (labeled 3.7.5Beta3.app).
Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724
Date: July 20, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<WISCLIST-750925-1272226-2005.07.19-09.13.58--hstearns#wisc.edu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<WISCLIST-750925-1272226-2005.07.19-09.13.58--hstearns#wisc.edu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Greetings! These are great questions!Release 1.0 of Croquet is not out yet. The current pre-alpha developer's snapshot (Jasmine) allows for a lot of application development prior to the 1.0 release, and allows developer's to experiment with ideas in this new territory. But several things intended for Croquet 1.0 are simply not present in Jasmine.
On Jul 19, 2005, at 8:57 AM, k.al-naimi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hi,I have come across Croquet open source code for collaborative enviroments. I went though all the examples which I had come across on the web and I had got to grips with Croquet. It seems to be very powerful but I had the following questions: 1) How to establish a collaborative session where multiple people are in the same virtual world (this was not so clear).
See http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/croquet/33
2) While within a collaborative session, how can they exchange audio-visual content that maybe related to avators.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Guesses might include:- Having one user take content that was created elsewhere and import it into the collaborative space for use by all.
- Having a microphone and/or camera associated with each avatar.
3) How can I open documents within the collaborative session that can be seen and appended by all participants.
Under development. See http://www.wetmachine.com/itf/item/267In the meantime in Jasmine, there is the start of a VNC viewer, the AnnotationMorph allows you to create text panels that can be shared and edited by all users, and the fish world in the TeapotMorph has some simple HTML browsers that let users actually do very basic WYSIWYG editing of the page. You'll have to poke around in the code. In doing so, remember that Squeak has a lot of powerful (and documented) 2D stuff in it, and that these can be placed onto panels in Croquet.
4)Is it possible to map movments from another peripheral to the avators (characters of the scene) and move them accordingly. and can this be in real time.
Do you mean that you want to use another input device (say, a joystick) to control your movement? Sure. The code's all open. But currently you need to know a bit about how devices interact with Squeak (see Squeak doc and community) and about how events relate to avatar movement. For the latter, you can look at the users of the 'driving' instance variable of TAvatar, or look at code that has been made available for different kinds of navigation, such as http://bugs.impara.de/view.php?id=445
Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724
Date: July 20, 2005
From: Shun-Yun Hu <syhu@xxxxxxxxx>
|
Hello,
I came across the Croquet Project recently and was very
interested by it. It is probably the closest project I've see so far that
matches what I wish to do: an immersive virtual environment (VE) that exists
persistently on a large scale, shared by millions of people. A briefer
version might be "VE worlds as widely used and popular as today's
WWW".
As a result, my research has been focusing on scalable virtual
environments based on the peer-to-peer paradigm. My collaborators and I have
also developed a new way to organize peers based on the math construct Voronoi
diagrams (called Voronoi-based Overlay Network, or VON. see http://vast.sourceforge.net/) in order
to solve the "neighbor discovery problem" (that is, how can nodes on a P2P
network find other relevant nodes to talk to?)
As I checked through the Croquet Project, it seems that
Croquet currently solves the "neighbor discovery problem" by using a number of
"Interactivity Servers". It seems to me that these "interactivity servers" are a
type of "super-nodes" in the Croquet P2P network, and may need to be specially
provisioned (by either companies or universities, using server-level hardware).
Is my understanding correct?
On the other hand, has the Croquet team consider *not* using
provisioned hardware in dealing with this "neighbor discovery problem", as it
might hinder the widespread and adoption of the Croquet system?
One thing I've been curious about is if my current work may
somehow help or be integrated into the Croquet project, as it is a
fully-distributed solution (without using any super-nodes) to the "neighbor
discovery problem". I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments on
this.
Best Regards,
Shun-Yun Hu
--- You are currently subscribed to croquet as: gclscd-croquet-devel@xxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-croquet-830584G@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
Date: July 19, 2005
From: "k.al-naimi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <k.al-naimi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi, I have come across Croquet open source code for collaborative enviroments. I went though all the examples which I had come across on the web and I had got to grips with Croquet. It seems to be very powerful but I had the following questions: 1) How to establish a collaborative session where multiple people are in the same virtual world (this was not so clear). 2) While within a collaborative session, how can they exchange audio-visual content that maybe related to avators. 3) How can I open documents within the collaborative session that can be seen and appended by all participants. 4)Is it possible to map movments from another peripheral to the avators (characters of the scene) and move them accordingly. and can this be in real time.
Date: July 19, 2005
From: Bert Freudenberg <bert@xxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<WISCLIST-728292-1271840-2005.07.19-02.48.09--bert#impara.de@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<WISCLIST-728292-1271840-2005.07.19-02.48.09--bert#impara.de@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Am 19.07.2005 um 09:47 schrieb Sergio Ruocco:
Howard Stearns wrote:David Reed will give a keynote on TeaTime. (http://www.oopsla.org/2005/ShowEvent.do?id=406) "Underlying Croquet is an object-oriented semantics based on active objects that have the capability of temporal reflection...I am thrilled by this reference to temporal reflection, because I comeup with an identical keyword and probably a very similar concept in theresearch for my CS Master and PhD Theses.Are there some publications that explain the origins and the conceptualfoundations of TeaTime's temporal reflection, to compare them with my research ? Vice versa, if someone familiar with TeaTime wants to spend some timeand give a look to my PhD work, I would really appreciate your commentsand feedback on it. For further information please see my home page.
Not sure about David's upcoming talk, but the ideas go way back to his 1978 PhD thesis:
http://www.lcs.mit.edu/publications/specpub.php?id=773
- Bert -
Date: July 19, 2005
From: Sergio Ruocco <sergio.ruocco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<WISCLIST-750444-1270816-2005.07.18-13.44.12--sergio.ruocco#disco.unimib.it@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<WISCLIST-750444-1270816-2005.07.18-13.44.12--sergio.ruocco#disco.unimib.it@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Howard Stearns wrote:
David Reed will give a keynote on TeaTime. (http://www.oopsla.org/2005/ShowEvent.do?id=406) "Underlying Croquet is an object-oriented semantics based on active objects that have the capability of temporal reflection...
I am thrilled by this reference to temporal reflection, because I come
up with an identical keyword and probably a very similar concept in the
research for my CS Master and PhD Theses.
Are there some publications that explain the origins and the conceptual
foundations of TeaTime's temporal reflection, to compare them with my
research ?
Vice versa, if someone familiar with TeaTime wants to spend some time
and give a look to my PhD work, I would really appreciate your comments
and feedback on it. For further information please see my home page.
Best Regards,
Sergio Ruocco
--
______________________________________________________________________
I moved ! Please note my new address:
http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~sruocco/ mailto:sergio.ruocco@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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National ICT Australia Ltd. University of New South Wales
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Date: July 19, 2005
From: Adrian Sampaleanu <adrian.s@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Sorry Howard, meant to send this out to the list... Is anyone else getting the following with the 0.3 Jasmine? In the TweakTeapot, when I try to update from the 1.1 stream, I get a MNU - in CProgressBar>>open:at: about PasteUpMorph>>activeProject partway through the updates. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-1260118-728516@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:bounce-1260118-728516@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Howard Stearns > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 12:07 PM > To: croquet-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Croquet-dev devlist > Subject: [croquet-user] Jasmine 0.3 available > > A new Jasmine 0.3 version is now available at the Croquet Website. > http://croquetproject.org/Croquet_Technologies/downloads.html > > The image has all the patches applied, but no other changes. > > You should continue to update going forward, and be aware > that this is still a developer's version and remains largely untested. > > Special thanks to Mark McCahill and his team at the > University of Minnesota for the huge set of Tweak merging and > annotation additions. > > Howard Stearns > Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT > Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictech > University of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI > 53715 > +1-608-262-3724 > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to croquet-user as: > adrian.s@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-croquet-user-728516E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >
Date: July 19, 2005
From: Adrian Sampaleanu <adrian.s@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<WISCLIST-728516-1260118-2005.07.13-11.05.32--adrian.s#sympatico.ca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<WISCLIST-728516-1260118-2005.07.13-11.05.32--adrian.s#sympatico.ca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sorry Howard, meant to send this out to the list... Is anyone else getting the following with the 0.3 Jasmine? In the TweakTeapot, when I try to update from the 1.1 stream, I get a MNU - in CProgressBar>>open:at: about PasteUpMorph>>activeProject partway through the updates. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-1260118-728516@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:bounce-1260118-728516@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Howard Stearns > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 12:07 PM > To: croquet-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Croquet-dev devlist > Subject: [croquet-user] Jasmine 0.3 available > > A new Jasmine 0.3 version is now available at the Croquet Website. > http://croquetproject.org/Croquet_Technologies/downloads.html > > The image has all the patches applied, but no other changes. > > You should continue to update going forward, and be aware > that this is still a developer's version and remains largely untested. > > Special thanks to Mark McCahill and his team at the > University of Minnesota for the huge set of Tweak merging and > annotation additions. > > Howard Stearns > Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT > Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictech > University of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI > 53715 > +1-608-262-3724 > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to croquet-user as: > adrian.s@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-croquet-user-829196H@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >
Date: July 18, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
David Reed will give a keynote on TeaTime. (http://www.oopsla.org/2005/ShowEvent.do?id=406) "Underlying Croquet is an object-oriented semantics based on active objects that have the capability of temporal reflection...In the talk, we'll highlight the main concepts of TeaTime, which provides that semantic model, and also talk about some of the interesting implementation issues involved in realizing the TeaTime semantics."
There will also be an all-day workshop on Croquet. (http://www.oopsla.org/2005/ShowEvent.do?id=204) "The Croquet Workshop will present the current state of the system, provide a number of working example applications and environments, and discuss how TeaTime and the requirements of a 3D collaborative object model changes the dynamics of development. The future direction of the system will be laid out and discussed. Those already familiar with Croquet are invited to provide interesting early development stories."
I can't wait! Hope to see many of you there! Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724
Date: July 18, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
David Reed will give a keynote on TeaTime. (http://www.oopsla.org/2005/ShowEvent.do?id=406) "Underlying Croquet is an object-oriented semantics based on active objects that have the capability of temporal reflection...In the talk, we'll highlight the main concepts of TeaTime, which provides that semantic model, and also talk about some of the interesting implementation issues involved in realizing the TeaTime semantics."
There will also be an all-day workshop on Croquet. (http://www.oopsla.org/2005/ShowEvent.do?id=204) "The Croquet Workshop will present the current state of the system, provide a number of working example applications and environments, and discuss how TeaTime and the requirements of a 3D collaborative object model changes the dynamics of development. The future direction of the system will be laid out and discussed. Those already familiar with Croquet are invited to provide interesting early development stories."
I can't wait! Hope to see many of you there! Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724
Date: July 13, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
However, this kind of thing could happen again in the future, so I want to go through it to let you all know that you're not crazy. [I regret that I don't have the exact wording in front of me.]
Remember that this is all development stuff. It first tells you to dismiss the next notifier and update again. Then you get an error. Which you should kill, close, or delete.Then when you try to update again you are told that the changeset name is already in use. You should "proceed" through that error. Everything will be fine.
Yes, this is working as intended. (No, I didn't do it, but I don't know of any better way to do it.)
Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724
Date: July 13, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<33725.66.168.116.144.1121272994.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<33725.66.168.116.144.1121272994.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Among these are things that do improve some importing times, and there was a patch way back when that made Mars respond much better. If any of those had gotten misloaded on your 0.2+updates....?
I also cleared the data cache and then reloaded each morph so that there was a valid .tea file ready and waiting when you unzip.
Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724 On Jul 13, 2005, at 11:43 AM, Ed Boyce wrote:
Howard,I'm happy to note that several world loading hitches present in Croquet0.2+updates under Linux do not manifest in 0.3. TeaPotMorph loading does not stall whet trying to load the Mars world. Also, loading seems to occur much faster overall. Is this the result of some script cleanups or some other basic improvement? Thanks! -- Ed Howard Stearns said:A new Jasmine 0.3 version is now available at the Croquet Website. http://croquetproject.org/Croquet_Technologies/downloads.html The image has all the patches applied, but no other changes. You should continue to update going forward, and be aware that this is still a developer's version and remains largely untested. Special thanks to Mark McCahill and his team at the University of Minnesota for the huge set of Tweak merging and annotation additions. Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictech University of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715 +1-608-262-3724 --- You are currently subscribed to croquet as: edboyce@xxxxxxTo unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-croquet-830584G@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: July 13, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<33725.66.168.116.144.1121272994.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<33725.66.168.116.144.1121272994.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Among these are things that do improve some importing times, and there was a patch way back when that made Mars respond much better. If any of those had gotten misloaded on your 0.2+updates....?
I also cleared the data cache and then reloaded each morph so that there was a valid .tea file ready and waiting when you unzip.
Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724 On Jul 13, 2005, at 11:43 AM, Ed Boyce wrote:
Howard,I'm happy to note that several world loading hitches present in Croquet0.2+updates under Linux do not manifest in 0.3. TeaPotMorph loading does not stall whet trying to load the Mars world. Also, loading seems to occur much faster overall. Is this the result of some script cleanups or some other basic improvement? Thanks! -- Ed Howard Stearns said:A new Jasmine 0.3 version is now available at the Croquet Website. http://croquetproject.org/Croquet_Technologies/downloads.html The image has all the patches applied, but no other changes. You should continue to update going forward, and be aware that this is still a developer's version and remains largely untested. Special thanks to Mark McCahill and his team at the University of Minnesota for the huge set of Tweak merging and annotation additions. Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictech University of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715 +1-608-262-3724 --- You are currently subscribed to croquet as: edboyce@xxxxxxTo unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-croquet-732211V@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: July 13, 2005
From: Ed Boyce <edboyce@xxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<WISCLIST-732211-1260119-2005.07.13-11.05.32--edboyce#bu.edu@xxxxxxxxx c.edu>
References:
<WISCLIST-732211-1260119-2005.07.13-11.05.32--edboyce#bu.edu@xxxxxxxxx c.edu>
Howard,
I'm happy to note that several world loading hitches present in Croquet
0.2+updates under Linux do not manifest in 0.3. TeaPotMorph loading
does not stall whet trying to load the Mars world. Also, loading seems
to occur much faster overall. Is this the result of some script
cleanups or some other basic improvement?
Thanks!
-- Ed
Howard Stearns said:
> A new Jasmine 0.3 version is now available at the Croquet Website.
> http://croquetproject.org/Croquet_Technologies/downloads.html
>
> The image has all the patches applied, but no other changes.
>
> You should continue to update going forward, and be aware that this is
> still a developer's version and remains largely untested.
>
> Special thanks to Mark McCahill and his team at the University of
> Minnesota for the huge set of Tweak merging and annotation additions.
>
> Howard Stearns
> Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org
> DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictech
> University of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI
> 53715
> +1-608-262-3724
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to croquet as: edboyce@xxxxxx
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-croquet-830584G@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
Date: July 13, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
A new Jasmine 0.3 version is now available at the Croquet Website. http://croquetproject.org/Croquet_Technologies/downloads.html The image has all the patches applied, but no other changes.You should continue to update going forward, and be aware that this is still a developer's version and remains largely untested.
Special thanks to Mark McCahill and his team at the University of Minnesota for the huge set of Tweak merging and annotation additions.
Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724
Date: July 13, 2005
From: Howard Stearns <hstearns@xxxxxxxx>
A new Jasmine 0.3 version is now available at the Croquet Website. http://croquetproject.org/Croquet_Technologies/downloads.html The image has all the patches applied, but no other changes.You should continue to update going forward, and be aware that this is still a developer's version and remains largely untested.
Special thanks to Mark McCahill and his team at the University of Minnesota for the huge set of Tweak merging and annotation additions.
Howard Stearns Croquet Lead Developer, http://croquetproject.org DoIT Academic Technology, http://www.wisc.edu/academictechUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison, 1301 University Avenue, Madison, WI 53715
+1-608-262-3724