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Date: December 31, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1167596362.13015.61.camel@localhost>
References:
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On Sunday 31 December 2006 15:19, garry saddington wrote: > > I have a set of goals for these. > > 1) get them to install with a Q&A routine from an RPM. this will help > > make them more accessable to to people that don't know any command line. > > Why not make an easy to install Windows version just for testing by > 'normal' teachers. Then for production recommend SuSE - not difficult to > justify (security, stability etc.). I can't think of a good reason to waste time with a windows anything. except maybe shades ;) > > > 2) get them to share an LDAP directory , > > Not for the amount of data that needs to be held. Use an agreed upon > central db like Postgres. > not looking to move the stored data anywhere until stage three , just looking to make a sharable demographics interface, if Centre was the main interface then Moodle and OpenBiblio could be configured to use Centre as their authentication and user repository , Yes? This would also allow each product to remain independent until stage three, Yes? > > This is necessary to reduce data > > redundancy and inaccuracy, it would also bypass the need for a SIF > > (student information frameworks) agent which is soon to be a requirement > > in the states, > > Doesn't surprise me. > > > ( I think there is a similar requirement growing in the UK, possibly > > in the EU as well all though I don't follow there EDU regs.) > > SIF is pointless stupidity geared at allowing commercial interests to > continue to fatten themselves on education's meagre resources (and it > costs for SIF as well!), apart from many other more technical > pointlessnesses. > If this was real business (and not education) I suspect that SIF would > be a complete non-starter and even a laughing stock. > No argument here > > 3) blend them together into one interface. To create a Hybrid that would > > include the setup from the "Open School Server" , this last goal would > > set the stage for a commercial version that both Novell and the good > > folks at Extis.de could support. > > It may be better to hang on for a while to see if any of the in > development MIS software ever gets to the point that it can compete with > the likes of SIMS by Capita (in England of course). waiting isn't helping. Many schools are right now looking for a replacement for things like WInschool which isn't NCLB compliant and has already been decommissioned by Pearson. At least with a program like Centre we can make it meet the needs and maybe some regulations too. I have seen more than one thread on this idea. google search SIS+Moodle and you will see them, even a company selling the service of using Moodles API to sync data.
Date: December 31, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<200612302029.52275.kai@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<211398.36675.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1167487243.12114.27.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <200612302029.52275.kai@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Saturday 30 December 2006 23:29, Kai Ponte wrote: > On Saturday 30 December 2006 06:00, James Tremblay wrote: > > what I eventually would like to see is, > > a product that has all the features in these three programs; > > 1) centre- written in PHP on a postgres DB > > 2) moodle- written in PHP on a mysql db with an available postgres port > > 3) openbiblio- written in php on mysql db > > > > this "hybrid" would be the core "source database" for an education > > assessment process. > > Since I know neither PHP or Postgres nor even MySQL, I'm looking to get > > a programmers point of view of the idea and work that needs to be done. > > Okay, I'm a bit confused. (Not that there's anything new...) > > Are you planning on re-writing these apps for inclusion in the distro? Kai, I have a set of goals for these. 1) get them to install with a Q&A routine from an RPM. this will help make them more accessable to to people that don't know any command line. 2) get them to share an LDAP directory , This is necessary to reduce data redundancy and inaccuracy, it would also bypass the need for a SIF (student information frameworks) agent which is soon to be a requirement in the states,( I think there is a similar requirement growing in the UK, possibly in the EU as well all though I don't follow there EDU regs.) 3) blend them together into one interface. To create a Hybrid that would include the setup from the "Open School Server" , this last goal would set the stage for a commercial version that both Novell and the good folks at Extis.de could support. James
Date: December 31, 2006
From: Kai Ponte <kai@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1167487243.12114.27.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<211398.36675.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <200612300911.04083.suse_mailing_list@xxxxxxxxx> <1167487243.12114.27.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Saturday 30 December 2006 06:00, James Tremblay wrote: > > what I eventually would like to see is, > a product that has all the features in these three programs; > 1) centre- written in PHP on a postgres DB > 2) moodle- written in PHP on a mysql db with an available postgres port > 3) openbiblio- written in php on mysql db > > this "hybrid" would be the core "source database" for an education > assessment process. > Since I know neither PHP or Postgres nor even MySQL, I'm looking to get > a programmers point of view of the idea and work that needs to be done. Okay, I'm a bit confused. (Not that there's anything new...) Are you planning on re-writing these apps for inclusion in the distro? -- kai - theperfectreign@xxxxxxxxx www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com www.filesite.org || www.donutmonster.com wo ist der ort für den ehrlichsten kuss ich weiss, dass ich ihn für uns finden muss...
Date: December 30, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<200612300911.04083.suse_mailing_list@xxxxxxxxx>
References:
<211398.36675.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1167451731.12114.18.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <200612300911.04083.suse_mailing_list@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > So it would makes sense to pursue A high bread of to two or three > > existing popular projects with a common language? Especially if the > > language itself is popular... > > If you know neither and are trying to base your decision on the language the > software is written in, I think you are going about it the wrong way. Both > are "easy secure and commonly known by programmers". It all depends on what > you want to do. If you know neither, make the decision based on the features > of the software you want to implement not the programming language. > > I use both. My original Linux Tutorial (link below) was written in Perl. When > I switched to PHPNuke as my portal, I converted all of my modules into PHP, > which also meant having to learn PHP from scratch. Perl and PHP are close > enough that I had no problems learning or converting. All of my web site > programming is now done with PHP. On the systems that I administer, I > typically write scripts in Perl. I choose the right tool for the job. > > I see no real need for a hybrid of the multiple languages unless you > *absolutely* need the functionality one offers that the others do not. > Usually, there is a way to implement anything using just one language or you > can implement very small blocks in a different language if you *have to*. > > The only time I would recommend Java is when you *absolutely* need any extra > functionality, *absolutely* need the extra speed or you *absolutely* need to > run it on multiple operating system. > > Regards, > > jimmo > > -- > --------------------------------------- > "Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your > character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others > think you are." -- John Wooden > --------------------------------------- > Be sure to visit the Linux Tutorial: http://www.linux-tutorial.info what I eventually would like to see is, a product that has all the features in these three programs; 1) centre- written in PHP on a postgres DB 2) moodle- written in PHP on a mysql db with an available postgres port 3) openbiblio- written in php on mysql db this "hybrid" would be the core "source database" for an education assessment process. Since I know neither PHP or Postgres nor even MySQL, I'm looking to get a programmers point of view of the idea and work that needs to be done.
Date: December 30, 2006
From: James Mohr <suse_mailing_list@xxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1167451731.12114.18.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<211398.36675.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1167451731.12114.18.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Saturday 30 December 2006 05:08, James Tremblay wrote: > On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 19:18 -0800, PerfectReign wrote: > > --- James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > I have a question. > > > While researching the different Open Source School > > > administration > > > software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) > > > perl without starting a > > > flame war, which is easier to secure and more > > > commonly known by > > > programmers? > > > james > > > > Probably both. I only know PHP, but them I'm a > > manager, so my job description no longer involves > > programming. > > > > IMO, you might find more people knowing perl, as it > > has a longer history than PHP. > > > > Now, according to the TPCI rankings ( > > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm ), however, PHP is right > > ahead of perl in terms of popularity. > > So it would makes sense to pursue A high bread of to two or three > existing popular projects with a common language? Especially if the > language itself is popular... If you know neither and are trying to base your decision on the language the software is written in, I think you are going about it the wrong way. Both are "easy secure and commonly known by programmers". It all depends on what you want to do. If you know neither, make the decision based on the features of the software you want to implement not the programming language. I use both. My original Linux Tutorial (link below) was written in Perl. When I switched to PHPNuke as my portal, I converted all of my modules into PHP, which also meant having to learn PHP from scratch. Perl and PHP are close enough that I had no problems learning or converting. All of my web site programming is now done with PHP. On the systems that I administer, I typically write scripts in Perl. I choose the right tool for the job. I see no real need for a hybrid of the multiple languages unless you *absolutely* need the functionality one offers that the others do not. Usually, there is a way to implement anything using just one language or you can implement very small blocks in a different language if you *have to*. The only time I would recommend Java is when you *absolutely* need any extra functionality, *absolutely* need the extra speed or you *absolutely* need to run it on multiple operating system. Regards, jimmo -- --------------------------------------- "Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden --------------------------------------- Be sure to visit the Linux Tutorial: http://www.linux-tutorial.info
Date: December 30, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<211398.36675.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<211398.36675.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 19:18 -0800, PerfectReign wrote: > --- James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > I have a question. > > While researching the different Open Source School > > administration > > software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) > > perl without starting a > > flame war, which is easier to secure and more > > commonly known by > > programmers? > > james > > Probably both. I only know PHP, but them I'm a > manager, so my job description no longer involves > programming. > > IMO, you might find more people knowing perl, as it > has a longer history than PHP. > > Now, according to the TPCI rankings ( > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm ), however, PHP is right > ahead of perl in terms of popularity. So it would makes sense to pursue A high bread of to two or three existing popular projects with a common language? Especially if the language itself is popular...
Date: December 30, 2006
From: PerfectReign <theperfectreign@xxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1167431899.12114.2.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<1167431899.12114.2.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
--- James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I have a question. > While researching the different Open Source School > administration > software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) > perl without starting a > flame war, which is easier to secure and more > commonly known by > programmers? > james Probably both. I only know PHP, but them I'm a manager, so my job description no longer involves programming. IMO, you might find more people knowing perl, as it has a longer history than PHP. Now, according to the TPCI rankings ( http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm ), however, PHP is right ahead of perl in terms of popularity. According to one leading job search engine - which I find a decent indicator of needs - there are 4748 perl jobs available and only 1229 PHP jobs. Of course, there are also 14,673 Java jobs available. :P __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: December 29, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1167310526.4712.80.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <200612271244.38101.lrupp@xxxxxxx> <1167228795.4712.70.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <3443378.1167303077682.SLOX.WebMail.wwwrun@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1167310526.4712.80.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
I have a question. While researching the different Open Source School administration software, I have found two major camps 1) php 2) perl without starting a flame war, which is easier to secure and more commonly known by programmers? james
Date: December 28, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<3443378.1167303077682.SLOX.WebMail.wwwrun@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <200612271244.38101.lrupp@xxxxxxx> <1167228795.4712.70.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <3443378.1167303077682.SLOX.WebMail.wwwrun@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Thu, 2006-12-28 at 11:51 +0100, Lars Rupp wrote: > Am Mi 27.12.2006 15:13 schrieb James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>: > > > + develop some special education patterns (a list of packages, > > > marked > > > for installation during the installation-phase of the new > > > distribution) > > > > I'm not sure we should bother AJ about adding this stuff to the > > "mainline", I always thought it would be separate, unless it's a post > > installation option in Yast from either our repo's or the edu-cd. > > Every time when I install an openSUSE distribution (and, yes: I do this > more than once for every Release ;-) I'm searching for the educational > packages which are still on the media. > Some of them (like "kdeedu") are easy to find via the search option in > the detailed package manager view), some of them (like "drgeo" for > example) are more hidden and someone must know them bevore he can find > them. > I think AJ is the last person who says "no" if we send him a list of > packages for an extra "education" pattern. Ok, now i'm up to speed , didn't know those packages still existed in the "mainline". which now makes a lot of sense to to have an install pattern. > > > I would put it as a default bookmark on the desktop like they used to > > do > > with the SuSE home page in SLE9 > > Yes, we can add a bookmark to the wiki site, too. But I think without > any software in mind, no normal user whould realize that a normal > openSUSE distribution comes with many educational packages "out of the > box". > > > > I'll take that as a PLAN! > > Then we should add it to the wiki. And begin with part one... ;-) > > > > Should we make time to collaborate on what the wiki says? how about > > our > > own IRC channel, #opensuse-edu ? > Huh! Many thinks to do. I don't have the time to work on every place :-( > But perhaps we can find some people who have different interests and > like to maintain thinks like an IRC channel? I meant just you and I, :) > I think you can maintain the wiki pages - so we should discuss if we > need more "maintainers" for the other thinks like "packages" (should be > a packager with access to the build service), "mailinglist" and so on. > > But please: not more chiefs than indians ;-) > > > > I dropped the core set of "admin" packages in the /server BS folder > > but > > they all need setup scripts and spec files added, another learning > > curve > > for me. > > I can help you - and many people on the buildservice and packagers > mailinglist, too. But we are not so fast between the years... ;-) not looking for speed, just greatness :) > > > > I don't have a clue as to how to separate the "BS" channel from > > the "installation" channel. Maybe I should have put them in my /home > > BS > > folder and gave you permission's ? > > Good question. I think we should discuss this on the buildservice > mailing list and come up with a solution in the wiki. > > > > Do you have a regular time we can IRC? > > Hm. Good question... > > > > I was wondering if someone could do some official "wooing" on the > > people > > at http://www.tux4kids.com/ to join in? I posted about us in their > > forum. I was hoping that we could get lots of help from Edu > > communities > > like them. > > I will do what is asked of me to make this happen, so please feel free > > to ask. > > I think helping each other is always a good point. But we should show > others what they can get as benefit from us before we ask them to > contribute. > > Perhaps as you might know: we decided not to have a own "openSUSE" Forum > because other people have forums out there which are much better and > which are online since a couple of time. So perhaps we should look out > (see my first post, position 1 ;-) and see what others always have - and > provide only those thinks which are not represented enough in the world > wide web. Nicely said! > > Currently my impression is that there is enough educational software - > but not enough documentation about it. Perhaps this is wrong. Perhaps we > can contact the authors of some software packages and ask if we can > assist in documentation... > > And we should ask the people on edubuntu, site@school, Schoolforge, ... > (who knows more?) if we can work together. Who likes to ask them? > > Greetings, > Lars > > >
Date: December 28, 2006
From: Lars Rupp <lrupp@xxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1167228795.4712.70.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <200612271244.38101.lrupp@xxxxxxx> <1167228795.4712.70.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Am Mi 27.12.2006 15:13 schrieb James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>: > > + develop some special education patterns (a list of packages, > > marked > > for installation during the installation-phase of the new > > distribution) > > I'm not sure we should bother AJ about adding this stuff to the > "mainline", I always thought it would be separate, unless it's a post > installation option in Yast from either our repo's or the edu-cd. Every time when I install an openSUSE distribution (and, yes: I do this more than once for every Release ;-) I'm searching for the educational packages which are still on the media. Some of them (like "kdeedu") are easy to find via the search option in the detailed package manager view), some of them (like "drgeo" for example) are more hidden and someone must know them bevore he can find them. I think AJ is the last person who says "no" if we send him a list of packages for an extra "education" pattern. > I would put it as a default bookmark on the desktop like they used to > do > with the SuSE home page in SLE9 Yes, we can add a bookmark to the wiki site, too. But I think without any software in mind, no normal user whould realize that a normal openSUSE distribution comes with many educational packages "out of the box". > I'll take that as a PLAN! Then we should add it to the wiki. And begin with part one... ;-) > Should we make time to collaborate on what the wiki says? how about > our > own IRC channel, #opensuse-edu ? Huh! Many thinks to do. I don't have the time to work on every place :-( But perhaps we can find some people who have different interests and like to maintain thinks like an IRC channel? I think you can maintain the wiki pages - so we should discuss if we need more "maintainers" for the other thinks like "packages" (should be a packager with access to the build service), "mailinglist" and so on. But please: not more chiefs than indians ;-) > I dropped the core set of "admin" packages in the /server BS folder > but > they all need setup scripts and spec files added, another learning > curve > for me. I can help you - and many people on the buildservice and packagers mailinglist, too. But we are not so fast between the years... ;-) > I don't have a clue as to how to separate the "BS" channel from > the "installation" channel. Maybe I should have put them in my /home > BS > folder and gave you permission's ? Good question. I think we should discuss this on the buildservice mailing list and come up with a solution in the wiki. > Do you have a regular time we can IRC? Hm. Good question... > I was wondering if someone could do some official "wooing" on the > people > at http://www.tux4kids.com/ to join in? I posted about us in their > forum. I was hoping that we could get lots of help from Edu > communities > like them. > I will do what is asked of me to make this happen, so please feel free > to ask. I think helping each other is always a good point. But we should show others what they can get as benefit from us before we ask them to contribute. Perhaps as you might know: we decided not to have a own "openSUSE" Forum because other people have forums out there which are much better and which are online since a couple of time. So perhaps we should look out (see my first post, position 1 ;-) and see what others always have - and provide only those thinks which are not represented enough in the world wide web. Currently my impression is that there is enough educational software - but not enough documentation about it. Perhaps this is wrong. Perhaps we can contact the authors of some software packages and ask if we can assist in documentation... And we should ask the people on edubuntu, site@school, Schoolforge, ... (who knows more?) if we can work together. Who likes to ask them? Greetings, Lars
Date: December 27, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<200612271244.38101.lrupp@xxxxxxx>
References:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <200612271244.38101.lrupp@xxxxxxx>
On Wed, 2006-12-27 at 12:44 +0100, Lars Rupp wrote:
> Hi James
>
> On Tuesday 19 December 2006 05:32, James Tremblay wrote (shortened):
> > I'd like to turn those two "channels" into the most trusted
> > education software sites in the world!
>
> I think we should decide between:
> - "build service" channels (containing always the "bleeding edge"
> software) and
> - "installation" channels (containing well tested software for
> endusers).
>
> Pointing endusers to channels with sometime broken packages doesn't make
> sense to me.
>
> Yes: the buildservice should provide an additional "Administration
> Frontend" for Repository Administrators, so they can decide when a
> (new) package will get in an external installation repository for
> endusers, but at this time this Frontend is not there...
>
> So my current personal "Roadmap" looks like:
> 1) Find out what we need:
> + test the current software packages we have on the distro => file
> bugreports if there is something we can do better
> + test other software packages (like new ones available in the build
> service or completely different ones)
>
> 2) Bring it together:
> + come up with some lists on en.opensuse.org/Education which contain
> recommendations classified by childrens age or "subject" resp. "area of
> interest". So parents and children get a first contact point to look
> for available (and perhaps missing) linux education-software.
> + develop some special education patterns (a list of packages, marked
> for installation during the installation-phase of the new distribution)
> for installation sources. They can be splittet in the same categories
> like the ones in the wiki. So a first set of patterns can perhaps be
> placed on the next openSUSE 10.3 and endusers can just select a pattern
> like "educational software for children from 4-10 years" and get all
> software which is described in the wiki. (We can create some tables in
> the wiki and place links to a more detailed description (and perhaps
> even a curriculum) of every package there.)
I'm not sure we should bother AJ about adding this stuff to the
"mainline", I always thought it would be separate, unless it's a post
installation option in Yast from either our repo's or the edu-cd. I
would put it as a default bookmark on the desktop like they used to do
with the SuSE home page in SLE9
>
> 3) Enhance it:
> + With the patterns and a hughe amount of good packages, we can start an
> own "Edu-CD" like edubuntu - if this is necessary. But I think this
> should be something at the end of a long way.
>
> If we create a good starting point for new customers, who can get
> 1. information (which software should I install for my children)
> 2. packages ("just one click away")
> 3. useful instructions for "the first time" they try the packages
>
> and all of these looking like a charm - I think we can do a very good
> job - and we need only a few packagers. What we need most are
> some "Beta-Testers" who test the available packages and write articles
> about them in the wiki.
> Thats just my two cents worth - what do you think?
>
> Lars
I'll take that as a PLAN!
Should we make time to collaborate on what the wiki says? how about our
own IRC channel, #opensuse-edu ?
I am in the learning phase on so many things, that hearing from you is
blessing.
I dropped the core set of "admin" packages in the /server BS folder but
they all need setup scripts and spec files added, another learning curve
for me. I don't have a clue as to how to separate the "BS" channel from
the "installation" channel. Maybe I should have put them in my /home BS
folder and gave you permission's ?
Do you have a regular time we can IRC?
I think I'm ok with maintaining the wiki content and with some direction
I can make it better.
I was wondering if someone could do some official "wooing" on the people
at http://www.tux4kids.com/ to join in? I posted about us in their
forum. I was hoping that we could get lots of help from Edu communities
like them.
I will do what is asked of me to make this happen, so please feel free
to ask.
James
Date: December 27, 2006
From: Lars Rupp <lrupp@xxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi James
On Tuesday 19 December 2006 05:32, James Tremblay wrote (shortened):
> I'd like to turn those two "channels" into the most trusted
> education software sites in the world!
I think we should decide between:
- "build service" channels (containing always the "bleeding edge"
software) and
- "installation" channels (containing well tested software for
endusers).
Pointing endusers to channels with sometime broken packages doesn't make
sense to me.
Yes: the buildservice should provide an additional "Administration
Frontend" for Repository Administrators, so they can decide when a
(new) package will get in an external installation repository for
endusers, but at this time this Frontend is not there...
So my current personal "Roadmap" looks like:
1) Find out what we need:
+ test the current software packages we have on the distro => file
bugreports if there is something we can do better
+ test other software packages (like new ones available in the build
service or completely different ones)
2) Bring it together:
+ come up with some lists on en.opensuse.org/Education which contain
recommendations classified by childrens age or "subject" resp. "area of
interest". So parents and children get a first contact point to look
for available (and perhaps missing) linux education-software.
+ develop some special education patterns (a list of packages, marked
for installation during the installation-phase of the new distribution)
for installation sources. They can be splittet in the same categories
like the ones in the wiki. So a first set of patterns can perhaps be
placed on the next openSUSE 10.3 and endusers can just select a pattern
like "educational software for children from 4-10 years" and get all
software which is described in the wiki. (We can create some tables in
the wiki and place links to a more detailed description (and perhaps
even a curriculum) of every package there.)
3) Enhance it:
+ With the patterns and a hughe amount of good packages, we can start an
own "Edu-CD" like edubuntu - if this is necessary. But I think this
should be something at the end of a long way.
If we create a good starting point for new customers, who can get
1. information (which software should I install for my children)
2. packages ("just one click away")
3. useful instructions for "the first time" they try the packages
and all of these looking like a charm - I think we can do a very good
job - and we need only a few packagers. What we need most are
some "Beta-Testers" who test the available packages and write articles
about them in the wiki.
Thats just my two cents worth - what do you think?
Lars
Date: December 26, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Hello all, I was wondering if anyone had anything to ask? James
Date: December 19, 2006
From: Richard Smedley <smedley358@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<4587BABF.50406@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <4587BABF.50406@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hello Roger, On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 10:11 +0000, Roger wrote: > I migrated to Linux quite a while ago - and while it isn't perfect, I > like it far better than 'Doze. > > But now I'm doing a PGCE, which involves teaching practice in M$ > committed schools... > > What does anyone know about software, etc. that might help me to > co-exist with that, without going entirely over to the M$ problem. [snip] While I'm sure this list will prove as useful as it did under its last incarnation [thanks once again to everyone who helped me last April with that article :o] - you should also get yourself signed up to schoolforge.org.uk, the other main list for Free Software in UK schools. :-) To answer your specific questions in the round, you are not going to win every round instantly - look at all the problems caused by non-free software in your school, then see where you can most easily make the biggest change. In a school with no Free Software awareness theIngots.org can be a good intro, as can a chance to introduce Moodle when the school realises it needs a VLE. Open Document Format and interoperability seem to be steadfastly ignored at the moment [in most schools], but standards are always worth a mention. Are you aware of this? http://www.openschoolsalliance.org/ The Early Day Motion now has 92 signatures from MPs wanting to know why there isn't more Free Software in schools :-) - Richard -- Richard Smedley, richard@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sustainable IT Consultant http://m6-it.org/ ``Software Freedom for the Voluntary Sector''
Date: December 19, 2006
From: Roger <roger.b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166502764.4048.192.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
But now I'm doing a PGCE, which involves teaching practice in M$ committed schools...
What does anyone know about software, etc. that might help me to co-exist with that, without going entirely over to the M$ problem.
OpenOffice.org is one that I'm already using, but that doesn't cope with recent Flash-enabled Powerpoint files (mind you, neither does the copy of M$ Office 97 that is still on my shelves). See where I'm going? The obvious solution (read as problem) is to buy the latest M$ product, but I don't want to do so!
Another one is that, for the PGCE, in and out of different schools, I bought myself a Lenovo 3000 C100. I repartitioned the hard disk and installed Linux, which worked excellently - but then I found that the Windows repair package refuses to work unless the 'Doze partition is its original size, so because 'Doze is flakey and has to be repairable, I had to remove Linux.
Again, there are 'Smart boards': both brands (Smart & Promethian) seem to be inextricably tied into M$ Office - they don't simply save to Word format files (which could be opened by OO.org), but they use the Word program to do it.
Again, the email system at the school where I've just completed my forst placement looked at first sight to be Web based - well, it is, but it seems to use proprietory IE stuff to carry out most of its operations, so when I logged in using Firefox, the system simply didn't work.
Now one PGCE student (or even, when I get a job, one teacher) isn't going to pursuade a whole school to change its computing policy, but I would like to push the open software envelope as far as I sensibly can over that proprietory approach.
Has anyone got any suggestions? Good networking, Roger
Date: December 19, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<20061219014335.GE4802@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 01:43 +0000, Craig Millar wrote:
> With regards to package wishlists on the website[1]. There are several
> requests for packages that are already available through the build service /
if the package is already on opensuse.org, can we put links to them in
an "Education" update channel in the future? LRUPp seems to have linked
the moodle packages from his /home:lrupp folder to education:server. if
a package belongs in education:server folder, could you, would you link
it please? same for education:desktop. please.
I'd like to turn those two "channels" into the most trusted education
software sites in the world!
> packman / guru. Is it preferable to link to these available packages
> (bearing
> in mind that build service packages especially may not be production ready),
why not ??? new tag line for the download service at opensuse,
"Certified for OpenSUSE!" Does the build service repackage finished
RPM's? if so I'd like to see all usable packages that are legally
available as OSS brought into the BS for official product compatibility.
one stop shop to build a school. (network)
> either with or without a disclaimer that the packages therein may not be of
> the standard expected, or to remove them as they are available elsewhere (esp
> in a more popular source, such as pm or guru)?
>
shouldn't "guru" want to mirror us rather than us mirror him? frees up
his disk space for other projects?
openSUSE needs to become the default repo for all OpenSUSE users, this
will help marketing and usability perceptions. The packages we can't
offer should be the domain of other repo's
i.e joe smith gives his child his old laptop , it runs w2k but it
doesn't have support. joe smith says "hey, OpenSUSE will run on this why
buy XP", downloads, installs , updates opensuse and says hey I'd like
(insert RPM) package. he goes to the software updater, looks for the
package and it's there. he sees an add for "long term support
subscriptions" upgrades to SLED and is "happy as a clam" if it's not,
then he goes elsewhere to find his package.
>
> On occasion, links have been supplied to, for eg, packman resources, only for
> the user to complain that it's not part of the official openSUSE builds and
> therefore less desirable[2].
my point exactly
> Personally I tend to trust packman (and indeed guru and several build
> service) builds having used them for ages. My question is more about the
> intent of these pages. Is it to provide any link (no matter how reliable) to
> SUSE rpms, or is it to provide links to better known (or only official)
> builds?
I trust them too, but let the more "experimental" users find the other
repo's
> I think the essential issue is that of relationship of trust built up between
> a (group of) user(s) and a particular packager.
everyone opensuse
> Perhaps a revamp of the
> wishlist pages is in order, something along the lines of wishlist items that
> are (or perhaps in factory), officially fulfilled,
do we need more specifics in writing regarding what can be wished for?
> and a list of repos that
> are available (unofficially, and stated as such).
I don't think we can officially or unofficially point to repo's that
offer "illegal" packages that infringe pattens or copyrights
Craig, As much as I would like to take the easy route, I believe we owe
it to OpenSUSE to bring everything SUSE under it's roof. if the BS
doesn't currently have the tools for us to bring in existing RPM's, it
should. I would like to be able to find an RPM elsewhere and bring it to
the BS and make it "certified" and available according to category and
repackaged for all current versions of OpenSUSE.
Please, if I have misinterpreted any of your positions, let me know.
James
Date: December 18, 2006
From: Karl Sarnow <karl.sarnow@xxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1166309507.5816.34.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<200612141744.12134.francisg@xxxxxxxxx> <1166118764.4153.5.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166309507.5816.34.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hello to all,
I am the author of the German language book "Linux in der Schule"
(Linux in schools).
I would like to point you to Xplora, the European Gateway for Science
Education, where we think that Open Source is a great tool.
Have a look at
http://www.xplora.org
Karl
James Tremblay schrieb:
> Hello all,
> We could use some help with the http://en.opensuse.org/Education
> project.
> Help with all aspects would be appreciated.
> I have included in the text of the site some goals.
> I'd like to ask that people with RPM building , PHP programming,
> postgresql, LDAP, and installation script experience , i.e. manipulating
> config files during the install process, please contact us.
>
> Schools all over the world could use help mainstreaming their records
> keeping process so that students can have the benefit of those records
> and their achievements, should they be in a position to go on to
> college.
> Shouldn't it be as easy as possible for students to have access to
> computers and the possibilities they provide.
> Wouldn't it be nice for some rural school district to be able to build a
> small network based on OpenSUSE and LTSP, that hosts all student
> management, course delivery and testing services as well as provide
> demographics, achievement and testing records that are recognized world
> wide? All these tools exist in opensource today, what is missing is the
> distribution to host them, together we can solve this issue.
>
> Topics for volunteers:
> 1) creating a complete installation system for Centre
> 2) adding LDAP to Centre
> 3) creating a "databridge" to Moodle
> 4) anything I haven't thought of yet
> James
>
--
Karl Sarnow
Science portal manager
Xplora - The European Science Education Gateway
E-mail: karl.sarnow@xxxxxxx
--------------------------------
Rue de Treves 61
B-1040 Brussels
Belgium
Tel.: +32.2.790.7578
Fax.: +32.2.790.7585
--------------------------------
Visit us at
EUN: http://www.eun.org
Xplora: http://www.xplora.org
Date: December 17, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<8be044e30612170016g52aef6f0s542eee696aebd05f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<200612141744.12134.francisg@xxxxxxxxx> <1166118764.4153.5.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1166309507.5816.34.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <8be044e30612170016g52aef6f0s542eee696aebd05f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Sun, 2006-12-17 at 19:16 +1100, Peter Flodin wrote: " If I have understood correctly we are talking about Installation software patterns and an extra repository (or add-on cd) to provide software for the educator. Is it envisaged that this will include the desktop similar to the ideas of Edubuntu? Or are we just talking School Administration? " The direction is indeed to have this "add-on" cd that works as a part of all three SUSE environments. (a total vertical sales solution approach) first: as a set of "install Patterns" for OpenSUSE that include both desktop and server\edu-administration materials. second: as set of patterns to make SLED more education centric. third: as a set of patterns to make SLES more education management centric. With OpenSUSE we get a chance to "reach the world" by keeping this approach in mind , we should build the cd to minipulate the build process to produce one machine that is both desktop\ltsp and adminstrative, giving even the poorest of schools the ability to transmit student records electronically, even if it's on a floppy. With the SLE variants we should be thinking about specific network functions i.e. will this be the SLED\LTSP box or the SIS server , the CMS server , the LAS server, the internet gateway, the website, the e-mail server, will there be M$ boxes on the network, etc. Remembering that a lot of schools have money for technology but it's limited and the persons in charge are more likely to be technology passionate educators , not technologists who are passionate about education. (I, being the latter and still rather rare). you wrote: " It should probably be part of a total comprehensive Education solution ie you would have admin or server component and desktop component of something like: openSUSE Education openSUSE Scholar openSUSE Academia openSUSE Learn eduSUSE eSUSE SUSE-Edu " This is correct, however I don't quite get all the names, are you thinking that a separate ISO be created for each of these or suggesting an overall project name? Should we create a voting area on the project name?
Date: December 16, 2006
From: James Tremblay <jamesat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to:
<1166118764.4153.5.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References:
<200612141744.12134.francisg@xxxxxxxxx> <1166118764.4153.5.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hello all, We could use some help with the http://en.opensuse.org/Education project. Help with all aspects would be appreciated. I have included in the text of the site some goals. I'd like to ask that people with RPM building , PHP programming, postgresql, LDAP, and installation script experience , i.e. manipulating config files during the install process, please contact us. Schools all over the world could use help mainstreaming their records keeping process so that students can have the benefit of those records and their achievements, should they be in a position to go on to college. Shouldn't it be as easy as possible for students to have access to computers and the possibilities they provide. Wouldn't it be nice for some rural school district to be able to build a small network based on OpenSUSE and LTSP, that hosts all student management, course delivery and testing services as well as provide demographics, achievement and testing records that are recognized world wide? All these tools exist in opensource today, what is missing is the distribution to host them, together we can solve this issue. Topics for volunteers: 1) creating a complete installation system for Centre 2) adding LDAP to Centre 3) creating a "databridge" to Moodle 4) anything I haven't thought of yet James
Date: December 04, 2006
From: Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi, as announced a while ago on the big lists [1] we will move this list to the new mailinglist server. We have also decided to rename it while moving it. All this will happen this wednesday (2006.12.06) at around 14:00 GMT. This means a few things for you. 1. This list, suse-schools-usa@xxxxxxxx, will be renamed to opensuse-edu@xxxxxxxxxxxx This means that mails to you will come from the new address and for posting you also have to send mail to opensuse-edu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx The old list adress will still work but is depreceated. I will turn it off in the future (with notice). 2. Your subscription will get transfered to the new listserver. No action on your part is required to continue reciving mails from this list. 3. Because of the renaming the mailinglist headers will change. If you filter for headers in your mail setup please adopt your setup accordingly. New headers will look like this: Delivered-To: opensuse-edu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mailing-List: contact opensuse-edu+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx; run by mlmmj X-Mailinglist: opensuse-edu List-Post: <mailto:opensuse-edu@xxxxxxxxxxxx> List-Help: <mailto:opensuse-edu+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx> List-Subscribe: <mailto:opensuse-edu+subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:opensuse-edu+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx> List-Owner: <mailto:opensuse-edu+owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 4. Mails will originate from the new server. If you accepts listmails only from the listserver adopt your setup accordingly. The mails will originate from DNS: lists4.suse.de IP: 195.135.221.135 5. The webarchive will be located at http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-edu/ 6. We are using a new mailinglist manager on the new server. This means some aspects of using the list changed. Some features are dropped and some new features are added. For a complete list check out this post: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2006-08/msg00005.html 7. If you have any problems at all with the new setup please dont hesitate to contact me! Henne [1] http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/2006-Nov/1464.html http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux/2006-Nov/0440.html -- ml-admin
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